Comments on: Prisoners Fight Fires: Is This the New Slave Labor? http://blog.iamnotashamed.net/2007/10/31/prisoners-fight-fires-is-this-the-new-slave-labor/ Thoughts on the Journey Thu, 04 Dec 2008 06:37:26 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Ariah http://blog.iamnotashamed.net/2007/10/31/prisoners-fight-fires-is-this-the-new-slave-labor/#comment-30120 Ariah Fri, 09 Nov 2007 20:24:12 +0000 http://blog.iamnotashamed.net/2007/10/31/prisoners-fight-fires-is-this-the-new-slave-labor/#comment-30120 Indie: Thanks for mentioning that. I understand your feeling that even a prisoner, or especially a prisoner, should 'earn their keep.' I don't have a problem with that, I do however have a problem with the privatized prison industry. I found a great quote that I think expresses it well: "(There is a) basic philosophical problem when you begin turning over administration of prisons to people who have an interest in keeping people locked up" notes Jenni Gainsborough of the ACLU's National Prison Project. Nathan: Thanks for your thoughts too. I think it says a great deal about your society, how you treat your prisoners. Indie: Thanks for mentioning that. I understand your feeling that even a prisoner, or especially a prisoner, should ‘earn their keep.’ I don’t have a problem with that, I do however have a problem with the privatized prison industry. I found a great quote that I think expresses it well:

“(There is a) basic philosophical problem when you begin turning over administration of prisons to people who have an interest in keeping people locked up” notes Jenni Gainsborough of the ACLU’s National Prison Project.

Nathan: Thanks for your thoughts too. I think it says a great deal about your society, how you treat your prisoners.

]]> By: Nathan Ketsdever http://blog.iamnotashamed.net/2007/10/31/prisoners-fight-fires-is-this-the-new-slave-labor/#comment-30061 Nathan Ketsdever Fri, 02 Nov 2007 23:32:04 +0000 http://blog.iamnotashamed.net/2007/10/31/prisoners-fight-fires-is-this-the-new-slave-labor/#comment-30061 I don't see anything intrinsically wrong with prison labor, even if its at a rate lower than the minimum wage. First, if prison labor is rehabilitative (even outside the context of job training programs) doing something productive can be helpful for self-esteem and avoiding depression. Second, the price of housing criminals is something like 30k a year, so prison labor effectively seems to be a means to pay back the public. However, Ariah, I think you're absolutely right that privitized prisons doing the same thing is certainly somewhere between suspect to reprehensible. Especially if they get to extract the labor of the prisoners for extra-profit. I think the question of if the working conditions and hours are humane or not is certainly an important question as well. I don’t see anything intrinsically wrong with prison labor, even if its at a rate lower than the minimum wage. First, if prison labor is rehabilitative (even outside the context of job training programs) doing something productive can be helpful for self-esteem and avoiding depression. Second, the price of housing criminals is something like 30k a year, so prison labor effectively seems to be a means to pay back the public.

However, Ariah, I think you’re absolutely right that privitized prisons doing the same thing is certainly somewhere between suspect to reprehensible. Especially if they get to extract the labor of the prisoners for extra-profit.

I think the question of if the working conditions and hours are humane or not is certainly an important question as well.

]]> By: indie http://blog.iamnotashamed.net/2007/10/31/prisoners-fight-fires-is-this-the-new-slave-labor/#comment-30050 indie Thu, 01 Nov 2007 18:18:23 +0000 http://blog.iamnotashamed.net/2007/10/31/prisoners-fight-fires-is-this-the-new-slave-labor/#comment-30050 It costs a lot of money to house a prisoner. They should have to work to cover the costs. I'm not for outside groups making money off of it, but its not appropriate for prisoners to sit around wasting the taxpayers' dollars either. As for injustices of who is imprisoned and who isn't, this should be looked into. It doesn't mean that prisoners shouldn't work. I'm fine with them getting some personal spending money for their work, but most of it should go to the costs of feeding and housing them. It costs a lot of money to house a prisoner. They should have to work to cover the costs. I’m not for outside groups making money off of it, but its not appropriate for prisoners to sit around wasting the taxpayers’ dollars either.

As for injustices of who is imprisoned and who isn’t, this should be looked into. It doesn’t mean that prisoners shouldn’t work. I’m fine with them getting some personal spending money for their work, but most of it should go to the costs of feeding and housing them.

]]> By: Ariah http://blog.iamnotashamed.net/2007/10/31/prisoners-fight-fires-is-this-the-new-slave-labor/#comment-30028 Ariah Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:18:56 +0000 http://blog.iamnotashamed.net/2007/10/31/prisoners-fight-fires-is-this-the-new-slave-labor/#comment-30028 Excellent point. At the same time, I think in both regards, there is something wrong when 'private' industry is running prisons and making a profit at the expense of the prisoners. The article mentioned the money 'saved' by taxpayers, but didn't mention the large profit the prison industry makes from this kind of labor. If there is profit made I think it should go to something that benefits the prisoners, maybe a scholarship fund for the prisoner once they get out. Excellent point. At the same time, I think in both regards, there is something wrong when ‘private’ industry is running prisons and making a profit at the expense of the prisoners. The article mentioned the money ’saved’ by taxpayers, but didn’t mention the large profit the prison industry makes from this kind of labor.

If there is profit made I think it should go to something that benefits the prisoners, maybe a scholarship fund for the prisoner once they get out.

]]> By: Keane http://blog.iamnotashamed.net/2007/10/31/prisoners-fight-fires-is-this-the-new-slave-labor/#comment-30027 Keane Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:22:10 +0000 http://blog.iamnotashamed.net/2007/10/31/prisoners-fight-fires-is-this-the-new-slave-labor/#comment-30027 You may want to differentiate two different kinds of prison labor. There is the one kind where they just use people for manual labor, but there is also a second kind where they work with the people to get certified for different jobs in the hope that when they get out of prison they will have a record of work and a set of skills that they can employ. It seems like this is helpful to lead people to getting good jobs while the other one is just manual labor. You may want to differentiate two different kinds of prison labor. There is the one kind where they just use people for manual labor, but there is also a second kind where they work with the people to get certified for different jobs in the hope that when they get out of prison they will have a record of work and a set of skills that they can employ. It seems like this is helpful to lead people to getting good jobs while the other one is just manual labor.

]]>